Recapping Kennedy's 2 days of hearings

On Wednesday, Kennedy spoke to the Senate Finance Committee and on Thursday, he spoke to the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee where he faced questions on a variety of different topics.

Vaccines

Kennedy fielded a number of questions from senators regarding his past claims about vaccines, including the false claim that vaccines cause autism.

In his opening statement, Kennedy said that "news reports have claimed that I am anti-vaccine or anti-industry. I am neither. I am pro-safety."

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) brought up Kennedy's past statements questioning whether vaccines were safe and his petition to force FDA to revoke the authorization of the COVID-19 vaccines.

Kennedy said that his comments doubting the existence of vaccines that are safe and effective were "a fragment of a statement" that has been "repeatedly debunked."

"I support the measles vaccine. I support the polio vaccine. I will do nothing as HHS secretary that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking [them]," Kennedy said.

During his hearing before the HELP Committee, Kennedy was also pressed multiple times about his views on vaccines.

Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), who is the chair of the HELP Committee, asked Kennedy to "reassure mothers unequivocally and without qualification, that the measles and hepatitis B vaccines do not cause autism."

"If the data is there, I will absolutely do that," Kennedy said.

Currently there are more than a dozen studies showing that vaccination isn't associated with autism, and when Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) mentioned that and asked if Kennedy agrees that vaccines don't cause autism, Kennedy reiterated his request for Sanders to show him the studies.

"Your job was to have looked at those studies as an applicant for this job," Sanders said.

Cassidy spoke of caring for a woman who needed a liver transplant, saying it was the "worst day of my medical career" because he knew a $50 vaccine could have prevented her fate.

"Your past of undermining confidence in vaccines with unfounded or misleading arguments concerns me," Cassidy said. "Can I trust that that is now in the past? Can data and information change your opinion, or will you only look for data supporting a predetermined conclusion?"

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) also expressed skepticism of Kennedy's views on vaccines, saying that Alaska had made "considerable gains" in "vaccinating the many people in very rural areas where one disease outbreak can wipe out an entire village." She asked Kennedy to use "your podium, your platform" to promote trust in vaccination.

Sen. Angela Alsobrooks (D-Md.) asked Kennedy about his claim in 2021 that "We should not be giving Black people the same vaccine schedule that's given to whites because their immune system is better than ours."

Kennedy referred to "a series of studies," potentially referring to a 2014 study of the rubella vaccine from the Mayo Clinic that found a more robust immune response among Black participants.

"What different vaccine schedule would you say I should have received," said Alsobrooks, who is Black. "That is so dangerous," she added.

However, some senators applauded Kennedy for his views on vaccines and appeared to agree with them at least in part. Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.) reiterated the false claim that vaccines cause autism. "There's an issue that I have as a father of six, that when my kids come out from getting their vaccines, they look like a freaking pin cushion. I mean, 72 vaccinations," he said. "When you start looking at the rise of autism, why wouldn't we be looking at everything?"

Similarly, Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) said during the hearing that his soon-expected first granddaughter would not be "a pincushion" referring to vaccines, and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said people should be open-minded about any possibility that could be a factor in autism.

Cassidy pushed Kennedy again on the topic and Kennedy said that Medicaid enrollees aren't happy with their coverage and that "premiums are too high." However, Medicaid is prohibited by law from having premiums for the lowest-income enrollees.

Kennedy then implied that Medicaid expansion under the Affordable Care Act harms care for lower-income people, citing Medicare costs as a reason, though Medicare is a separate program that mainly provides care for people over the age of 65.

During his time before the HELP Committee, Sanders asked about congressional Republican proposals to make significant cuts to Medicaid. Kennedy said he hadn't seen those proposals.

"I can only tell you what President Trump has told me, which is that he wants me to make Medicaid, Medicare and Obamacare better," he said.

Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) quizzed Kennedy on what Medicare Parts A, B, and C cover. Kennedy said that Medicare Part A covers primary care when in fact it covers inpatient care during hospital stays. He said Medicare Part B covers "physicians and doctors," however Part B actually covers medically necessary services and supplies as well as preventive services.

Kennedy described Medicare Part C as "a program where it gets the full menu of all the services; A, B, C, and D for Medicare." Medicare Part C is also known as Medicare Advantage, a program where approved private insurance plans are offered as an alternative to traditional Medicare.

"Mr. Kennedy, you want us to confirm you to be in charge of Medicare, but it appears that you don't know the basics of the program," Hassan said.

Abortion

Multiple senators asked Kennedy about his years of support for abortion, including his pledge during his presidential campaign that he would protect it and his more recent comments supporting efforts to restrict abortion access.

"I have never seen any major politician flip on that issue quite as quickly as you did when Trump asked you to become HHS secretary," said Sanders.

Kennedy repeatedly said that he agreed with Trump that "every abortion is a tragedy."

When asked by Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto (D-Nev.) whether the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) preempts state abortion bans if a woman needs an emergency abortion, Kennedy said he wasn't sure.

"I don't know," he said. "I mean, the answer to that is, I don't know."

During his hearing before the HELP Committee, Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-Del.) also asked Kennedy about EMTALA, asking if he agreed "that a person who is experiencing severe pregnancy complications should be able to receive emergency care to save their life, if that care is an abortion?"

Initially Kennedy pointed to Trump's policy on the issue, but after Blunt Rochester pressed him, Kennedy said he believes pregnant women should have access to abortions if it's necessary to save their lives.

Kennedy also noted in his Finance Committee hearing that Trump asked him to study the safety of the abortion drug mifepristone. "He has not yet taken a stand on how to regulate it," Kennedy said. "Whenever he does, I will implement those policies."

Drug pricing

Kennedy suggested that the Trump administration would be issuing an executive order in support of the Medicare drug price negotiation program passed in 2022 as part of the Inflation Reduction Act. That executive order has yet to be made public.

"My understanding is that the White House issued an executive order, I believe, today, supporting the drug negotiations under the [Inflation Reduction Act]," Kennedy said. "We've already negotiated the first 10 drugs, and we want to expand it to the next 10 to 15 that the Biden administration has put forward."

Kennedy also said "we should end that disparity" between drug prices in Europe and in the United States when asked by Sanders whether he would seek to ensure the United States doesn't pay more for prescription drugs than other countries.

Regarding pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), Kennedy said PBM reform passed by the Senate Finance Committee was a notable achievement and said that Trump is "absolutely committed to fixing PBMs."

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), who has authored legislation to curb PBM business practices, told Kennedy he expects him "to work with us to hold PBMs accountable." Kennedy agreed and said he would also back Grassley's other priorities, including requiring stronger warnings on television advertisements for prescription drugs.

Food and nutrition

Some senators, including Senate Finance Committee Chair Mike Crapo (R-Idaho) asked Kennedy to elaborate on his concerns about the relationship between nutrition and processed food and chronic diseases.

When asked for potential proposals, Kennedy suggested funding research at NIH and FDA to understand the relationship between food additives and chronic diseases. Kennedy also criticized the presence of processed foods in school lunches and nutrition assistance programs funding sugary drinks.

Kennedy called for "putting people in charge of their own health care, of making them accountable for their own health care so they understand the relationship between eating and getting sick."

He added that if people wanted to eat processed foods, they should be allowed to, but they should be aware of the health consequences.

What senators are saying

Following Kennedy's appearance before the Senate Finance Committee, Sen. John Fetterman (D-Penn.), who has been eyed as a potential swing vote, said that Kennedy's performance was "not great."

"I don't think it went well for him today. I don't think that was a good one," Fetterman said.

When asked if he's still open to voting for Kennedy, Fetterman said, "It's moot. I'm not really sure how much support's going to emerge after that," adding that he's "not sure [Kennedy will] even make it out of the committee."

Cassidy following Kennedy's appearance before the Senate HELP Committee, said he's "struggling" with whether to vote to confirm Kennedy.

Cassidy, who is a physician, asked Kennedy multiple times to publicly declare that vaccines don't cause autism. Cassidy said Kennedy would only say that if the evidence proved otherwise, he'd apologize for past comments.

"A worthy movement called [Make America Healthy Again]," Cassidy told Kennedy at the end of his hearing in front of the HELP Committee. "To improve the health of Americans, or to undermine it, always asking for more evidence, never accepting the evidence that is there? That is why I have been struggling with your nomination."